2 genders

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Shadow101
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2 genders

Post by Shadow101 » Sat Nov 25, 2017 10:33 pm

What is everyone's take on genders? I strongly believe that there are only two genders.

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Re: 2 genders

Post by Snowskeeper » Sat Nov 25, 2017 10:53 pm

Why do you believe that, Shadow?
The human body is a true carnival of horrors, and, frankly, I'm embarrassed to have one.

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Re: 2 genders

Post by Shadow101 » Sat Nov 25, 2017 11:26 pm

Since you can only have a penis or a vagina. That pretty much narrows it down. Not to mention I am all up for you changing your gender to a boy to a girl or girl to boy. How ever to say I identify as a Girl and your not one is kind of false advertising. One thing I cant stand is parents trying to jam gender change down a child's throat is cruel and dumb in my opinion not to mention dangerous. I think you should have to wait till your 18 to change your gender. You have to be 18 to smoke 21 to drink. I have watched a lot of videos of kids 2 years later hating life because they cant go back.

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Re: 2 genders

Post by Snowskeeper » Sat Nov 25, 2017 11:52 pm

Shadow101 wrote:
Sat Nov 25, 2017 11:26 pm
Since you can only have a penis or a vagina.
That's biological sex, not gender.
How ever to say I identify as a Girl and your not one is kind of false advertising.
"False advertising?" What are they trying to sell?
One thing I cant stand is parents trying to jam gender change down a child's throat is cruel and dumb in my opinion not to mention dangerous.
I don't know of any parents that do that. I'm sure there are some; there are loads of idiots out there. But I'm not sure how this is relevant if it's not a common trend.
I do know of several who don't raise their children the way society believes a boy or girl should be raised (IE in ways that don't conform to the concept of gender identity society has set up), but I can't see how that would be reasonably construed as harmful, except insofar as people might bully the kid for being different. In my opinion, the issue there is with the bullies, not with the parents; punishing the parents or the kid seems like victim blaming, to me. It's like saying "you shouldn't have had bought such a nice car" to somebody who had their locked car stolen out of their driveway. The niceness of the car is a factor, yes, but shouldn't the focus be on the people who stole it?
I think you should have to wait till your 18 to change your gender. You have to be 18 to smoke 21 to drink. I have watched a lot of videos of kids 2 years later hating life because they cant go back.
I'm not going to try to say what should happen, here, because I'm not trans. The trans experience of life is not the same as the cis experience of life. I can try to understand how the experience of a trans individual differs from my own, but to claim I know what's best for them would be incredibly arrogant. I think you're right when you say that we should be making sure that people know what they're getting into when they go through with this, but if we're going to do that, it should be through some sort of course overseen by individuals who have gone through with the procedure, and who have experience with life as a trans individual before it--not by cis people who think they know what's best.
The human body is a true carnival of horrors, and, frankly, I'm embarrassed to have one.

"Almost all discipline problems can be traced back directly to being conscious.”

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Re: 2 genders

Post by Wint » Sun Nov 26, 2017 5:36 am

Shadow101 wrote:
Sat Nov 25, 2017 11:26 pm
Since you can only have a penis or a vagina.
Hermaphrodites have both. And there are many types of intersex people.
And as Snows said, that's sex, not gender.
“The tongue is the most remarkable. For we use it both to taste out sweet wine and bitter poison, thus also do we utter words both sweet and sour with the same tongue.”
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Re: 2 genders

Post by Shadow101 » Sun Nov 26, 2017 1:30 pm

Really then why do ultrasounds determine the gender of the child? Why do Dr. Who are trained Professionals say its a boy when the babies delivered if they see a penis? Hell even the RP Forum section of role-playing when it says gender or sex you put male or female ijs.

Are you serious? What are they trying to sell the fact that there are male or female. With children changing gender It's much more common than you think. And most of the time not all most of the time it's the parents doing .Also because people fall in and out of what they like doing or what they consider fun or trend.

I know full grown adults adults who get a tattoo thinking it's going to be cool and then immediately regret it. Hell the most famous person for doing it Bruce Jenner or Caitlyn Jenner. has went back and forth on the fact so many times its driving me nuts. Because here's the deal once you chop it off There's No Going Back.

Now what I'm trying to say is, is that you should have to be 18 in order to change your gender. The reason for that is because it's more life-changing than any cigarette any amount of alcohol any tattoo or anything else.

Now if you're an adult and you want to change your gender go ahead. There's tons of other crazy people out there that think you shouldn't be able to choose who you want to be. I'm not saying that at all. All I'm saying is, is that the people that want to should be of age of maturity. So that way they don't regret their decision.

Hermaphrodites are like Siamese twins it's a deficiency. Most hermaphrodites don't want to be a hermaphrodite. And most hermaphrodites if you look at their genetalia it's so misplaced and so unevenly proportionally shaped it's ridiculous. But let's say I go with your theory then there are 3 genders a man with a penis a woman with a vagina and a hermaphrodite with both now can you tell me any other type of Gender that would result in changes in the alteration of physical appearance?

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Re: 2 genders

Post by UmbraSight » Sun Nov 26, 2017 4:01 pm

Shadow101 wrote:
Sun Nov 26, 2017 1:30 pm
Really then why do ultrasounds determine the gender of the child?


They don't, they determine the sex.
Why do Dr. Who are trained Professionals say its a boy when the babies delivered if they see a penis?
Because that doctor is stating the physical sex of the child.

Hell even the RP Forum section of role-playing when it says gender or sex you put male or female ijs.
Because, in common parlinance gender and sex are conflated to mean the same thing, when this is not the case. Sex is a descriptor of the physical sexual organs while gender refers to the expected way that person will act within society (their expected roles) as well as how that person self identifies with their sex. Gender dyspepsia is caused by someone's perception of their own gender not matching the physical sex of their body, and there are many ways that this could happen. But, again, remember that sex and gender are not interchangeable, insofar as for their use in a scientific setting, it is the lay person who conflates the words.

If you want a good example of this happening elsewhere, look at the word theory in how science uses it - a scientific theory is equivalent to a law, it is something which has been proven beyond a reasonable doubt to be true - as compared to how Joe Shmo uses theory - essentially they use it to mean the same as a scientific hypothesis, so simply an educated guess.

How we, the lay people use words and define them isn't always the same as how technical fields will use and define them.
Are you serious? What are they trying to sell the fact that there are male or female.


I wouldn't really call them wishing to be closer to the sex that they feel they are a commodity. Sex reassignment is not a short process, they could easily be part way through the transition, or they could just be taking hormone supplements, but seriously, how hard is it to call someone "she" or "he" or "they" if that's what they wish to be called? Sure it might seem silly to you, but it might make their day a little nicer so it doesn't seem too bad a trade off.
With children changing gender It's much more common than you think. And most of the time not all most of the time it's the parents doing .Also because people fall in and out of what they like doing or what they consider fun or trend.
Citation needed.

I couldn't find much on this from a reputable source, because man do tabloids love transgendered kids. As far as I can tell, it seems the current process with the younger children is for them to receive psychiatric help, and once they reach the age of puberty to take hormone suppressants to stall puberty -- which is safe and reversible -- until the child is of a proper age to make the decisison.

Some of these children, if not properly treated mutiliate their own genitalia. And at the end of the article they note that of the 97 children who didn't feel correct in their own skin, only one opted out of treatment. As far as the parents go, sure they exist, but there are also parents who don't vaccinate their children or refuse treatment for operable and treatable diseases which lead to the death of the child. The point being that there are many issues where mother or father could very easily not know best.
I know full grown adults adults who get a tattoo thinking it's going to be cool and then immediately regret it.
These are not the same thing, at all, in the slightest. The people getting the tattoo do not have a psychological problem or distinct need to get that tattoo to improve their quality of life. Further, from what few studies into the matter which have been done, the satisfaction rate for gender reassignment surgery is fairly high. I am going to link a Huffpost article here because it provides links to a good number of scientific resources you can have a look at. The percentage for those who are dissatisfied with their transition is only around 4%, to add some perspective the dissatisfaction rate with rhinoplasty is at a national average of about 15%.
Hell the most famous person for doing it Bruce Jenner or Caitlyn Jenner. has went back and forth on the fact so many times its driving me nuts.
No she hasn't. I have seen this myth pop up a lot, but every time I check Caitlyn Jenner has denied having any second thoughts. This is, as far as I can tell, its just tabloid gossip with no substantial anything behind it.
Because here's the deal once you chop it off There's No Going Back.
Yes, and most people have no regrets.
Now what I'm trying to say is, is that you should have to be 18 in order to change your gender.
This is common practice, at most a child will receive a hormone suppressant until they are of an age they can make an informed decision.
The reason for that is because it's more life-changing than any cigarette any amount of alcohol any tattoo or anything else.
Tell that to an alcoholic who is now suffering from a failing liver, or a teen who picked up smoking at an early age and now has lungs which work at a decreased capacity at forty, and contracts cancer at sixty. The fact the effects are kicked down the road doesn't mean the devil isn't going to collect his due.
Now if you're an adult and you want to change your gender go ahead. There's tons of other crazy people out there that think you shouldn't be able to choose who you want to be. I'm not saying that at all. All I'm saying is, is that the people that want to should be of age of maturity. So that way they don't regret their decision.
Again, this is common practice, and most children who wait do end up transitioning. I'm against holding off treatment by form of hormone therapy or puberty suppressants when these are things we can safely do until the child is of the correct age.
Hermaphrodites are like Siamese twins it's a deficiency.
And?
Most hermaphrodites don't want to be a hermaphrodite.
Right.

And most hermaphrodites if you look at their genetalia it's so misplaced and so unevenly proportionally shaped it's ridiculous.
Ok?
But let's say I go with your theory then there are 3 genders a man with a penis a woman with a vagina and a hermaphrodite with both now can you tell me any other type of Gender that would result in changes in the alteration of physical appearance?
XO, XY, XX, XXX, XXY, XYY, XXXY are all the possible and viable human sexes as defined by our chromosomes. None of these however define your gender, as gender is, again, how you indentify with your biological sex and the various expectations and roles associated with that sex. You problem is, quite simply, you conflate sex and gender as being the same thing, when they aren't. But, even if you do want to conflate the two terms, which you shouldn't, then there are at least six, and possibly more when you add in the ideas of identity and people who don't identify as our classical understanding of male or
female.
//… and it was there, and her blade flicked out catching only air. She backed from the door, worn floorboards shivering with each misplaced step...// Fall of the Aelir Isles, Vol. III

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Re: 2 genders

Post by Shadow101 » Sun Nov 26, 2017 5:11 pm

Bullshit when my wife went in for the ultrasound at 16 weeks the nurse said oh I can see the penis it's a boy. Not oh I see the penis we have to wait until it decides.

Yes key part on PHYSICAL. If I was fat and I said I identify as I guy with muscles you would laugh in my face. My physical appearance would give it away right? I could be strong as an ox but I would still evidently be fat. It's the physical part is the accurate representation of what we are talking about which makes my point accurate.

Ok so let me get this straight if I am seven year old I can be a Boy right a Boy like right now I go into the men's room because I am a man. But I identify as a female at the same time. That would make me a Boy/Girl right?

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... e-sex.html

4% is still a very high number. I would also state making it so you have to be 18 to change your gender it would be much lower then 4 %

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/reports-ca ... ransition/ There are two sides.

However that person can take AA The other one nicderm CQ etc. Once you chop it off it's gone.

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Re: 2 genders

Post by UmbraSight » Sun Nov 26, 2017 6:18 pm

Shadow101 wrote:
Sun Nov 26, 2017 5:11 pm
Bullshit when my wife went in for the ultrasound at 16 weeks the nurse said oh I can see the penis it's a boy. Not oh I see the penis we have to wait until it decides.
The nurse was telling you the child's sex, not their gender. You are getting the definitions wrong even after having them explained to you I see. Gender and sex are not the same thing, and the fact your nurse called your male child a boy doesn't mean they are the same thing. If you think they are you are using the terms incorrectly.
Yes key part on PHYSICAL. If I was fat and I said I identify as I guy with muscles you would laugh in my face. My physical appearance would give it away right? I could be strong as an ox but I would still evidently be fat. It's the physical part is the accurate representation of what we are talking about which makes my point accurate.


These are not the same. Weight is purely physical, gender has a mental aspect that was just explained to you, but let me explain it again. Gender is about internal perception, it's a mixture of societal influences, brain chemistry, body chemistry, and a whole host of other factors that make you, you. Sex is a discription of what you are physically. Gender and sex are not synonymous and the fact you think they are shows you don't understand the argument being made.
Ok so let me get this straight if I am seven year old I can be a Boy right a Boy like right now I go into the men's room because I am a man. But I identify as a female at the same time. That would make me a Boy/Girl right?


What the actual fuck. I say again, you don't understand the argument being made.

Your sex is male, and your gender identity is female. More than that you could also be in the process of transitioning between the two, so uh, stop being absurdist with your examples.


Oh, using tabloids to prove our point now I see.

Please find me a source that isn't known for sensationalism and stretching the truth beyond recognition. Hell, Wikipedia doesn't allow the Daily Mail to be used as a source as they are unreliable.


4% is still a very high number. I would also state making it so you have to be 18 to change your gender it would be much lower then 4 %
Germany had 500 something people transition, 4% were unhappy, meaning about 20, with 480 who are satisfied with the results, and of that 480, about 25% are extremely satisfied with the results. Theses are better numbers than most plastic surgeries people have done to them.

Further, they already wait to eighteen you oaf, I just explained to you what processes they do while they wait for the child to be of an age where they can decide if they want to or not, which I guess you ignored, like you always seem to do.



Image

The guy saying "well Caitlyn will just pretend to be happy until she returns to being Bruce!" Isn't another side, it's him trying to get his fifteen seconds of fame via a tabloid magazine and trying to save face when the person he is accusing fires back. If Caitlyn comes out tomorrow and announces she is changing back, then you actually have an argument.

However that person can take AA The other one nicderm CQ etc. Once you chop it off it's gone.


Once your liver has begun to rot from achohol poisoning or cancer has inflicted your lungs and started to spread it is too late to do either of those two things. Which was my actual point. Also isn't the fact you think Caitlyn Jenner wants to transition back detrimental to this idea of yours?
//… and it was there, and her blade flicked out catching only air. She backed from the door, worn floorboards shivering with each misplaced step...// Fall of the Aelir Isles, Vol. III

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Re: 2 genders

Post by Shadow101 » Sun Nov 26, 2017 6:59 pm

On more then one job application it says sex or gender. Hell sometimes I've seen Gender/Sex.Lets do one argument at a time All I am saying is that they be made to wait until there 18. At what age can I get plastic surgery without a parental consent? The legal age in the United States is 18 as to which a patient can give permission for surgery without parental consent. In general we only operate on patients 18 years and older for elective surgical procedures. Now I know why that is. Do you?

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