The Last Jedi [SPOILERS!!!!!!]

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Trandafir
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The Last Jedi [SPOILERS!!!!!!]

Post by Trandafir » Mon Jan 08, 2018 5:08 pm

I loved it. I love how Luke is humanized in this movie, despite what a large portion of the fandom and Mark Hamil thinks. Does it have flaws? Yes. But I like how it set up the third movie and it's fun to watch. Finn's plot could've been better, but I enjoyed it much more on my second screening


also WHAT THE FUCK Phasma??? I hate that they threw away a potentially amazing character. If they didn't plan on using her for anything of importance anyway don't add her to all the fucking merch. They tried to Boba Fett 2.0 and failed big time
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Re: The Last Jedi [SPOILERS!!!!!!]

Post by TheDarkOne » Mon Jan 08, 2018 5:32 pm

And now the spoilers.

I'm not actually basing my opinion off the original trilogy. They were fantastic and I was equally annoyed at the prequels. They have their gems I enjoy, Darth Maul and the fight scene on Mustafar. But overall the prequels are cheesy and boring. Which is why no one reallllly wanted George Lucas to make another one.

I based it on the previous movie which was outstanding. Sure it was A New Hope 2.0 but it did well in introducing new characters and setting up their relations, it set up Snoke, it creates an air of mystery around Reys parents. Good stuff. The humour didn't feel forced, I felt it was well paced overall and I never felt bored at any point. That was Disney playing it safe and it worked. I was then waiting on the Last Jedi to be their first proper foray out into the wide universe of Star Wars.

Now I'll credit Rian Johnson because he directed some great parts of that movie. That scene on Crait when the Sand Speeders were approaching the AT-AT was epic. The fight scene in the throne room was one of the best fight scenes I have seen. The sets were fantastic, costume work was great. All great stuff. But he wrote that movie. I thought it started out really well. I was in. He had me hooked. But after that it was alot of plot holes, boring sub plots that could have mostly been averted. After they took down the Dreadnaught and Leia was blasted into space (wish they never Mary poppined her), it was boring right up until the throne room scene.

Forget Phasma being killed off, Snoke. Wtf. He was portrayed so well and set up so excellently, and then was killed by a sneak attack. I really hope JJ brings him back but he will have to die in the next movie so I also don't because it will equally ruin him if he does return to be killed off in some regard.

Comparing this to the Force Awakens, it doesn't really hold a candle. I just can't help but feel Disney should have stuck with one director. It feels as if JJ Abrams wanted to go in one direction and Rian Johnson wanted to go in the other. Like that game where someone starts a sentence and someone has to continue it.

Also overall I don't think Luke should have been portrayed like that. He could have been humanized in a much better light rather than sitting about moaning and whining, and could have went out in a much better way.

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Re: The Last Jedi [SPOILERS!!!!!!]

Post by Trandafir » Mon Jan 08, 2018 5:44 pm

Leia being Mary Popped was awful. There were people at the theatre laughing when it was supposed to be dramatic and emotional t.t I don't mind Snoke being killed off, it was unnepected and it crushed the idea that the Force Awakens came up with that they'd be following the same formula with the all mighty emperor, the rebelion and our golden trio. I mean, I like the force awakens, and I think it was very smart of them to base it on A New Hope so much, but I'm also very pleased that they didn't keep this up to do a Empire Strikes Back 2.0. The Force Awakens was a transition, from George Lucas' Star Wars to Disney's.

Anyway, back to Snoke. I didn't mind killing him off, and I liked the way it was done, but I got curious with the character. I hope they bring some of his story back on the expanded universe, but I don't miss it in the actual trilogy. I also loved Holdo so freaking much, they should do a Spin Off about her t.t

I can understand what you said about the change on the directors. I don't agree or disagree to that, but I think I'll wait to judge when the third movie comes out, to see if it feels like a messy story line or not. if JJ picks up and uses what Rian set up with this movie I think it can do great, but it could lead to some major plot holes depending on how this change of directors is handled.

I think Luke had to deal with the weight of being put on a pedestal by the entire galaxy. It's been years since he defeated Palpatine, and it's something that'll never be forgotten by him or anyone else. I think his development was great and I would have hated to see a super wise Yoda-like Luke. Not that he's not wise, he is, but I like human Luke escaping his responsibilities much more than Jedi Master Luke. But I think that bit really is a matter of opinion
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Re: The Last Jedi [SPOILERS!!!!!!]

Post by Wholey33 » Mon Jan 08, 2018 10:37 pm

I liked when luke drank the sexy alien moose juice

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Re: The Last Jedi [SPOILERS!!!!!!]

Post by UmbraSight » Mon Jan 08, 2018 11:55 pm

While I loved the movie, and have a ton to say about it, there is one thing I feel I need to address before getting into any other topic: Snoke's death.

Now, before I dip into why Snoke's death was fantastic, let us first talk about one of the movie's themes, that of the two different philosophies held by Kylo and Rey. Kylo's beliefs are this: that we must discard our pasts, that we must utterly destroy them, and once they are destroyed, once every trapping is removed only then can we begin to start afresh and move forward, Rey however has a far different approach. Rey doesn't wish to destroy her past, she seeks to learn and grow from it, the past, and the failings held within them are something you must accept and allow as part of you to move on.

(And throughout the movie we see Luke as a sort of bridge between these two ideas, but failing to carry either of them out until the end of the movie where he accepts his failings.)

Snoke however, is a representative of the past, he stands for the old Sith order, for the history of Sith empires. He is a cruel and evil man, and again, he is a physical representation of the past. Snoke's death is Kylo's philosophy, and in his speech following that amazing battle sequence we can come to understand him more. Kylo isn't looking to become the next Sith Lord, Kylo wishes to destroy the Sith, and for that matter the Jedi, the Republic, the Empire, the Rebels, all of it. Kylo's slaying of Snoke is the set up to show what his motivations really are.

(Further, it is Kylo's variation of Yoda destroying the tree later in the movie, and while both moments are about breaking free of the past, we see that both are handled completely differently. Rey saves the books, which is her side of this ideological coin; she cuts her ties to the past but is certain to learn from their successes and failings)

And it should be noted that Snoke's death is a nod to the failings of Kylo's philosophy. In killing Snoke and taking his place Kylo continues in the tradition of the Sith. He is doomed to repeat the mistakes and failings of the past. (It should be noted however that another theme in TLJ and TFA is that the Force has changed. This is why Rey, a no body of no important birth, is so strong in the force, verses Kylo who is a continuation of the Skywalker bloodline. This is an important note because I believe it might be leading up to both Rey and Kylo taking paths that are different from what the Jedi and Sith before them took. Or for Rey it might mean she won't fall into the trappings of hubris which has in the past always been the failings of the Jedi. From Obi wan and Yoda to Luke, it's even something that is important in the KOTOR games, from my memories.

And, another note, in killing Snoke, they break the formula of Star Wars movies, while the movie felt reminiscent of ESB it shows that they are more than happy to push this new narrative in the direction that they desire it to go. (Which is also why we find ourselves saying goodbye to Han and Luke, they will always be part of us, but it's time to move onto the stories of the new characters.)
//… and it was there, and her blade flicked out catching only air. She backed from the door, worn floorboards shivering with each misplaced step...// Fall of the Aelir Isles, Vol. III

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Re: The Last Jedi [SPOILERS!!!!!!]

Post by Trandafir » Tue Jan 09, 2018 12:05 am

^ couldn't have said it better.

I also love that they got rid of Luke (even though he'll most likely return through the force) and Han. Leia as well, I wish she could've had a decent ending at the series... But we'll see what they're going to do with the character on the next film.

My point is, the Star Wars universe is much bigger than them, and overusing the old cast, like the Hobbit did and was a total flop (at least the second and third movies) would grant nothing to them but the possibility of fanservice and the restrictions that'd come with actors who are, well, old, in a franchise that is intended to last for idk how many years to come. Star wars is still surprising, which is a good thing. The movie has it's failures as everything that has a huge hype surrounding it would have. They couldn't have made a perfect movie that would please everyone, and I love how they chose to go with it.
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Re: The Last Jedi [SPOILERS!!!!!!]

Post by UmbraSight » Tue Jan 09, 2018 12:43 am

Another fun note about Luke's death, it is a beautiful bookend. He dies looking up at the dual suns rising much as how he started ANH looking up at the suns when he was still a boy back on the farm. It is a striking moment in a movie full of them.

I also agree with Trandy, I'm in a way glad they are sending off the old cast so we don't have their shadows looming over us. It lets the series stretch out, and become its own thing. I'll be sad to see them go, but I am excited to see what comes next.
//… and it was there, and her blade flicked out catching only air. She backed from the door, worn floorboards shivering with each misplaced step...// Fall of the Aelir Isles, Vol. III

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Re: The Last Jedi [SPOILERS!!!!!!]

Post by Trandafir » Fri Feb 02, 2018 11:16 pm

Hey! Isn't it funny we all want what isn't right?

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Re: The Last Jedi [SPOILERS!!!!!!]

Post by Poetic Ghost » Tue Apr 03, 2018 12:52 am

The Last Jedi is a story about failing, getting over your mistakes, and learning from them. In this movie, everyone tries to do their own thing and it always fails, until they learn from what they did wrong.

Now, each Star Wars movie has a scene that is unnecessary and otherwise just holds the movie down (Empire has the giant worm, Jedi had Ewoks, Phantom Menace had Pod Racing etc..), however these scenes can be fun and memorable. I really liked Benicio Del Toro's character; DJ, but the sequence on the casino planet was pointless, but it helped us develop Rose and Fin's characters a bit, and the return to the stable kids story where we see how Luke's story inspires people across the galaxy is a nice way to tie up Luke's story beyond his death (which I thought was very beautiful and fulfilling)

Back to failures, we see the characters try and fail, and ultimately the Rebels learn from their mistakes and prevail, while Kylo Ren and the First Order don't, and continue to fail because of it. While Poe had many problems, but he still learns that you can't just rush into battle and blow everything up without taking casualties. Luke learns that he has to overcome his mistake (thinking he had to kill Ben, leading him to become Kylo) and learns that the best teacher is failure. I feel that Finn's story wasn't that different from the last film, he just learns that he can't run from his battles and that sometimes you need to face your enemies even if it means you might lose.

I don't understand why Admiral Holdo didn't tell her crew about her plan the entire time, even when she was hated enough to the point that a large portion of her crew attempted to start a mutiny. She really had no point to hide her plan from her own men, but it made for an interesting finale for her character and I can't complain.

Rey's parents being nobodies was more important than you think. The point was to show the divide between Kylo and Rey. Ben Solo comes from a line of great Jedi who were heroes in their own ways, and becomes the villain. Rey is a nobody, and becomes a hero for the Resistance. I prefer having her be her own character without the shadow of another character as her parent to hold her down.

This is a very Rian Johnson movie, the same way Force Awakens is a JJ Abrams film, Empire is a Irvin Kresner film, and Rogue One is a Gareth Edwards film. Each director makes their film different from the rest, I liked how different this film was from Rogue One and Force Awakens. And I hope Ron Howard makes Solo his own film outside of the shadow of other directors.

Final thoughts:

This movie is good. It isn't a masterpiece or a fluke. It has things that are very good, and some flaws. Snoke served to be a figurehead for the First Order, and a Emperor for Kylo Ren to be mentored by and eventually overthrow, he doesn't need a backstory or his own film (they tried that with Sheev) Leia's space flying was weird, and I was really thrown off when they didn't kill her (which was a whole sequence to show how Kylo Ren is still on the rocks about killing Han, and is unsure if killing his mother is the right move)

8/10 - I laughed, I cried, and felt weird when weird things happened.
~~ You are but a grain of sand, in the sands of time. ~~

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