Social Justice and Freedom of Speech

Keep things civil, people, or else we'll put you in time-out.
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Annasiel
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Re: Social Justice and Freedom of Speech

Post by Annasiel » Fri Nov 17, 2017 6:27 am

bastecklein wrote:
Thu Nov 16, 2017 4:40 am
The hard liners on both sides keep fighting but fail to embrace the one thing they have in common: everybody else is making fun of them.
This is my new favorite quote.
Alone she drifts from ancient mists
Nary a candle, nary a wish
But in the wont of wandering paths
Through wooded knolls, and windworn crags
She seeks a face she thought as friend
But now -- she thinks as judgement's end

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Re: Social Justice and Freedom of Speech

Post by ShaFlow » Fri Nov 17, 2017 3:41 pm

I'm an All Speech or No Speech kind of guy. I think everyone is entitled to their opinion no matter how stupid or hateful it
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Re: Social Justice and Freedom of Speech

Post by DatGuyDusty » Fri Nov 17, 2017 4:06 pm

My quick and brief opinion.

SJWs are overly senstive universally. Well, usually. They scream, shout and make issues out of literally nothing. They'll even get you fired if you're unlucky enough. They also ruin a lot of things, like gaming because of a certain Anita say stupid things. A lot. Also, some are hypocrites with race issues but.

Anti-SJWs mean well, but... Well. Some are racist, facist and etc etc. A few bad apples ruins the bunch and so on.

Also screw PC. Literally. Poltical correctness is stupid. Say what you want when you want, then deal with anything after.
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Annasiel
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Re: Social Justice and Freedom of Speech

Post by Annasiel » Fri Nov 17, 2017 5:46 pm

PC has a place in the professional sphere. When you're dealing with business/people, you need to be tactful and polite; that's something I'm kinda sad to see the Right giving up in reaction to the overly-PC push from the left. If a worker is being an ass to everyone and making an uncomfortable, unproductive, and/or unprofitable work environment, the company reserves every right to reprimand that. It's called professionalism for a reason, sometimes you just have to suck it up and smile.

Even outside of work, there's a difference between voicing your opinion and being an asshole. If you're blatant and crude, sure, that's your right, but don't cry about it when there are social consequences. Nobody's owed the right to be listened to.

I think most SJWs are well-meaning, but have trouble defining the lines between free speech and professionalism. I think most anti-SJWs are well-meaning, but have trouble realizing their right to free speech isn't a right for anyone to care about what they have to say. Both sides, in their extreme, are misguided, and overcomplicate an issue socialization often solves on its own.
Alone she drifts from ancient mists
Nary a candle, nary a wish
But in the wont of wandering paths
Through wooded knolls, and windworn crags
She seeks a face she thought as friend
But now -- she thinks as judgement's end

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Annasiel
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Re: Social Justice and Freedom of Speech

Post by Annasiel » Fri Nov 17, 2017 5:49 pm

I think everyone would do well to immerse themselves in the motivations of both sides, instead of relying on Sargon of Akkad, Young Turks, sensationalized news reports of fringe movements, etc. for their understanding of the whole movement.
Alone she drifts from ancient mists
Nary a candle, nary a wish
But in the wont of wandering paths
Through wooded knolls, and windworn crags
She seeks a face she thought as friend
But now -- she thinks as judgement's end

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Re: Social Justice and Freedom of Speech

Post by Nathanswift2 » Fri Nov 17, 2017 7:30 pm

Bullshit. I reserve the right to say whatever I want, and if someone's delicate sensitivities prevent them from hearing it, they're the broken part, not me. I'm not saying the Nazis were right, but they have a more valid right to free speech than any of these SJW sissies.
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Re: Social Justice and Freedom of Speech

Post by Annasiel » Fri Nov 17, 2017 7:41 pm

I think the majority of the planet would disagree with you. Being polite is a worldwide concept of civilization (though it is fairly context-dependent).
Alone she drifts from ancient mists
Nary a candle, nary a wish
But in the wont of wandering paths
Through wooded knolls, and windworn crags
She seeks a face she thought as friend
But now -- she thinks as judgement's end

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Re: Social Justice and Freedom of Speech

Post by Wint » Fri Nov 17, 2017 7:57 pm

Nathanswift2 wrote:
Fri Nov 17, 2017 7:30 pm
Bullshit. I reserve the right to say whatever I want, and if someone's delicate sensitivities prevent them from hearing it, they're the broken part, not me. I'm not saying the Nazis were right, but they have a more valid right to free speech than any of these SJW sissies.
Hitler incited. He used false propaganda to direct frustrations of many sorts through fear and blissful empty wishes against the Jews. Freedom of speech is rooted within the range of freedom of your rights and everyone else's. Crushing people's rights and annihilating what they believe in for the sake of expressing yourself is a violation of their right to life, which in Israel we call the right to life and safety. Putting your beliefs and thoughts on the table is one thing. Showcasing them even when you're aware that it has undeniable repercussions that could strongly offend the opposing side when alternatives point to deliberate harmfulness and occasionally even megalomania.
“Sticks and stones may break my bones, but words are merely the smallest element of language capable of containing meaning in isolation, and as such could never directly produce the 4000 Newtons of force per square centimeter required to break bones.” - Michael Stevens

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Re: Social Justice and Freedom of Speech

Post by DatGuyDusty » Fri Nov 17, 2017 9:42 pm

Annasiel wrote:
Fri Nov 17, 2017 7:41 pm
I think the majority of the planet would disagree with you. Being polite is a worldwide concept of civilization (though it is fairly context-dependent).
Politeness and PC are different. PC culture tries to censor and take speech away, people even getting arrested for saying a word.

Walking into a work place and being an ass is different. They're just daft and beind a moron. Politeness is more preference than anything, PC is just a step back. A backwards step against free speech.
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Annasiel
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Re: Social Justice and Freedom of Speech

Post by Annasiel » Fri Nov 17, 2017 10:00 pm

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_correctness

Political correctness has meant many things over the years, and is usually used in a satirical sense by both sides of the spectrum. For all intents and purposes, here I am referring to the definition "language used to avoid offense," which is synonymous with politeness.

The problem with politically charged phrases is everyone views them differently, tacking on disparate connotations and definitions. Considering PC is a perjorative phrase, when someone says "I hate PC culture," it's a bit vague what they're arguing against. I assumed you were taking the common stance of "I want to be able to say anything I want" instead of the more reasonable "I don't want the government to turn Orwellian," and for that I apologize.

Some words, in my opinion, should lead to legal intervention. For example, if someone were to say "I'm going to bomb so-and-so business and no one can stop me," I'd much rather have a cop knocking on their door out of probable cause than risk them going through with it.

Do you have any examples of people being arrested for saying something that isn't a call to violence or premeditation?
Alone she drifts from ancient mists
Nary a candle, nary a wish
But in the wont of wandering paths
Through wooded knolls, and windworn crags
She seeks a face she thought as friend
But now -- she thinks as judgement's end

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