Pacifism: for good? Or for bad?

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Archer_Algren
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Pacifism: for good? Or for bad?

Post by Archer_Algren » Fri May 05, 2017 6:43 am

"If [the number of pacifists] is large enough [to cripple the state as a belligerent], then you have handed over the state which does tolerate Pacifists to its totalitarian neighbour who does not. Pacifism of this kind is taking the straight road to a world in which there will be no Pacifists." -C.S. Lewis

So I need some opinions here, some pacifists have been bugging me about my stories, which usually ends in violence or force solving everybody's problems.
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Re: Pacifism: for good? Or for bad?

Post by Annasiel » Fri May 05, 2017 7:21 am

Pacifism and belligerence go hand in hand. You need belligerence to stoke the fire, and pacifism to provide a way out. Take the U.S. Black Civil Rights movement, for example. Without the more violent proposals like that of Robert F. Williams, the more lenient, pacifistic terms would have never been met.

I do find it fitting that the man you quoted had a habit of shouting over people in debates and attacking them personally to try and force his views, though.
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Re: Pacifism: for good? Or for bad?

Post by Archer_Algren » Fri May 05, 2017 11:49 am

Annasiel wrote:
Fri May 05, 2017 7:21 am
Pacifism and belligerence go hand in hand. You need belligerence to stoke the fire, and pacifism to provide a way out. Take the U.S. Black Civil Rights movement, for example. Without the more violent proposals like that of Robert F. Williams, the more lenient, pacifistic terms would have never been met.

I do find it fitting that the man you quoted had a habit of shouting over people in debates and attacking them personally to try and force his views, though.
Didn't know that, but thanks for letting me know, now I have more reason to dislike C.S. Lewis.

I just find it pointless that some people push for peace even if it means their own destruction, I remembered how Ghandhi tried to send hitler letters to stop, and how the allies should have never fought world war 2, he also said that the jews allow the nazi's to exterminate them or they kill themselves, and Hitler once mentioned that the best way to deal with ghandhi is to shoot him, So I don't think pacifism works if your opponent doesn't share the same sentiments.
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Re: Pacifism: for good? Or for bad?

Post by Austin » Fri May 05, 2017 8:23 pm

Pacifism is something that has always escaped me. Peace is not so sweet that you should achieve it without bloodshed.
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Re: Pacifism: for good? Or for bad?

Post by UmbraSight » Fri May 05, 2017 10:24 pm

Silly statement.

Diplomacy exists, and mindless posturing is often what causes wars between major world powers. Peace can easily be gained and maintained by not being a blubbering idiot who thinks with his military might first, and actually talking to opposing powers second.

Hell, blindly toppling existing governments is what caused these issues we have in the east.
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Re: Pacifism: for good? Or for bad?

Post by Snowskeeper » Tue May 09, 2017 4:13 am

Pacifism's a good thing. Refusing to defend yourself or others with violence is more of a gray area, although I would argue that, especially in this era of cell-phone cameras, using violence to defend yourself is a lot more likely to end in you being demonized, especially if you're defending yourself against, say, a police officer who is abusing his or her power, or an idiot with a gun and a potential "stand your ground" defence, or another individual who might otherwise be able to claim that they were operating within their authority.

Trying to force your beliefs on others is almost always a bad thing, though, and I think that was what makes Gandhi's statements about the Jews objectionable, not the fact that those beliefs were pacifist.

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Re: Pacifism: for good? Or for bad?

Post by Nathanswift2 » Wed Oct 18, 2017 8:22 pm

Austin wrote:
Fri May 05, 2017 8:23 pm
Pacifism is something that has always escaped me. Peace is not so sweet that you should achieve it without bloodshed.
Exactly. Laying your body before marching tanks may slow the machine of war, but belligerents are merely encouraged through their bloodlust. Some individuals are ill and require a heavy dose of lead for treatment.
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Re: Pacifism: for good? Or for bad?

Post by shadowvoidboss » Thu Dec 21, 2017 12:29 pm

If there was no conflict the idea of peace wouldn't exist.

Peace and war go hand in hand but I've noticed that some people make riots throwing molotoves and throwing rocks at people saying there for peace yet they do it in a very unpeaceful way. OR they don't stand up for what's right because it would go against being a pacifist. I say pacifism is a good thing at right times
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Re: Pacifism: for good? Or for bad?

Post by The Alt-Rick » Mon Dec 25, 2017 3:19 pm

I'm gonna sound like a straightup sith lord here, but peace is a lie. There is only passion and force.

Whether that's passive aggressiveness or overt is irrelevant. All human beings have a will to power and to enforce that power. Everyone thinks they know better, and if they can't get their way, they'll elect someone who can, or at least try too. I see no inherit difference between a system that oppresses people through shame, isolation, and struggle than through a bullet to the head in the back of a garage. Put it this way: When someone can say with a straight face "I think life imprisonment is a way better punishment than execution" but than pat themselves on the back for not killing someone, they've just admitted they're giving into their ID, and want to be cruel, want to be malevolant, but still claim the moral highground. It's really kinda pathetic.

I make no qualms. I think war is pretty fucking stupid. It's just a desperate dick measuring contest between powers to grab resources or maintain them. To instill stability and hyper patriotism in a disnefranchised society. All the same, I don't think it's necessarily more wrong than embargos. Or the death penalty. I think the death penalty is a gross over use of the power of the state, I'd be far less offended by a self defense clause, even a very flimsy one. But were it up to me, many "prisoners of war" would be summarily executed. It's just most "normie crimes" I don't see as worthy of invoking death as a response.

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Re: Pacifism: for good? Or for bad?

Post by Wholey33 » Mon Jan 08, 2018 10:43 pm

Pacifisms are good they make babies stop crying

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